Curse

AndrewSX · Oct 26, 2011, 09:11 AM // 09:11

-ST do have energy problems, but using a Bip (or your 2 BR) i don't see much worries.
-Aegis > emphaty as anti-melee, and is not on your ER. just saying :P
-As Imba a backup copy of PSpirit/Aegis/prots is ok, but full ER looks a bit too much imo.

BTW, all my points are mostly matter of preference/gamestyle (rush in? forget about ST...),so much more tweaks then critics.

Ardent · Oct 26, 2011, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Hey guys,

So I've been experimenting with general PvE HM/vq builds. Used discort, spiritway, emo etc. My experience is that discort is only useful with AP nuker and its single target, spiritway needs micro else rit heroes use the spirits retardedly, and emo bonder is a bit too much, kind of waste of space.

This is the build I came up with:

I am looking for some feedback on it, what I should adjust to make it better ^^.

Lethal Primate · Oct 26, 2011, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

-ST do have energy problems, but using a Bip (or your 2 BR) i don't see much worries.
-Aegis > emphaty as anti-melee, and is not on your ER. just saying :P
-As Imba a backup copy of PSpirit/Aegis/prots is ok, but full ER looks a bit too much imo.

BTW, all my points are mostly matter of preference/gamestyle (rush in? forget about ST...),so much more tweaks then critics.

Point taken, I'm gonna test the ST some more. I never liked using a ST (if I take one my team will be (hero) ripoff of frostway

). But still, maybe he's more usefull than the ER, who knows.

Daesu · Oct 26, 2011, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethal Primate

You make some interesting points but I have a reason for each and every skill in this team. Dual blood ritual on the mesmers actually works better than 1 BiP, the 1 second casting time and the (relative) low sac means they won't get a huge amount of aggro (a BiP does, which is just annoying to say the least). Weakness shouldn't need explanation, togheter with empathy it's the only anti melee I have. I realy hate taking FB in my team because it's completely useless in a fight (I'll get there soon enough, I'm not in a hurry).

Perhaps dual BR works better than one BiP, I have never tried dual BR. But it kind of defeats the purpose of bringing a BiPer in the first place. The BiPer is suppose to hang back and reduce the need to bring 2 (or more) energy management skills on each mesmer.

Quote:

I've experimented with a ST but he has major some drawbacks, first and foremost he'll run out of juice after a while. Taking a ST also means I'd have to set up spirits before each fight, I'd rather rush in. The ST has no heals (yes a spammable spike heal is realy usefull). The ER in this team is here to keep me (the imbagon) alive, the way I play this team is by pulling the mobs myself and balling them up (If I can't rush em). Even a paragon can't take an endless amount of dmg, so I need some heavy duty protection and having life attunement on me makes a huge difference (dmg dealing as a paragon is just absurd anyway). The only scenario where the ST would be better than the ER is vs huge amounts of armor ignoring aoe dmg, which even he can't hold off verry long. The idea behind this team is that it can fight for a verry long time, the ST becomes useless after a (in my opinion short) while.

Similarly, a ER also needs some micro. If you don't micro PS, then you would be rushing in without protection also. Besides, the AI doesn't always cast ER upon recharge which leads to wasted energy. Enchantment removers can also remove the ER enchantment if you are unlucky. Having Infuse Health also draws aggro to your ER whenever he casts it. If your ER dies by drawing aggro due to sac, that would be worse for your team than having the BiPer dies. At least my BiPer has some protection from PwK. In the end, there are pros and cons with each option.

Lethal Primate · Oct 26, 2011, 05:16 PM // 17:16

@Deasu

one of the main reasons I don't take BiP is because i'd have to do without splinter weapon @14+ channeling magic, and that skill is just to good to do without.

For the ER I have both PS and SB binded to z and x so I can pre-prot both myself and the ER. If the ER uses infuse he doens't draw aggro. Because the moment someone needs infuse means that SY, heal spam and prot skills are all failing, this means he is under heavy attack. Now when the ER uses infuse the aggro doesn't shift to him but stays on his target (this is not an assumption, I've tested this a lot). The energy of the ER never seems to be a problem, he has 100 energy so if he "forgets" ER he isn't insta srewed. His enchant also doesn't get ripped all that much, (balled up mob+panic) and the mesmers draw most of the aggro.

itiscurtains · Oct 26, 2011, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Just for fun, my take on Khomet's K-Way:

Not really meant for anything too high end - I vq'ed two thirds of Tyria before getting bored.

AndrewSX · Oct 26, 2011, 07:32 PM // 19:32

^Nec orders + 4 Physic (2 volleys) = fun.

I don't see the 7th bar that energy intensive even to ask Offering of spirit tbh thought.

Daesu · Oct 27, 2011, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethal Primate

@Deasu

one of the main reasons I don't take BiP is because i'd have to do without splinter weapon @14+ channeling magic, and that skill is just to good to do without.

I can also get that with the BiP at the same time using my SoS rit so the two are not mutually exclusive.

Quote:

For the ER I have both PS and SB binded to z and x so I can pre-prot both myself and the ER. If the ER uses infuse he doens't draw aggro. Because the moment someone needs infuse means that SY, heal spam and prot skills are all failing, this means he is under heavy attack. Now when the ER uses infuse the aggro doesn't shift to him but stays on his target (this is not an assumption, I've tested this a lot). The energy of the ER never seems to be a problem, he has 100 energy so if he "forgets" ER he isn't insta srewed. His enchant also doesn't get ripped all that much, (balled up mob+panic) and the mesmers draw most of the aggro.

That is not always the case though since enemies are not always balled up nicely every time. Once the ER casts infuse, enemies closer to the ER would be attracted to the ER. I have seen this happen before.

Sorakun · Nov 29, 2011, 11:09 AM // 11:09

First of all: Hi! I'm new to Guild Wars (Less than 6 months or so) and I'm just starting to sort of step up my game and have been looking to complete City of Torc'Qua... and it's hell!

I'd like to say up front I'm not very good at Micro'ing my Heroes, and I was looking for suggestions on how to help me through that area. I've also started to do HM Wanted! quests and the Hero builds I've been using come from here:

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Player_Support

For what I do, (and how poorly I manage my heroes....) it seems to work well for everything but Torc'Qua -_-

I'm an Air elementalist, just to throw that out there (Which is pretty unorthodox, it seems. I just hate the "standard" player builds everybody suggests haha)

I essentially run: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:E/any_PvE_Invoke_Lightning
Shock Arrow//Shell Shock for optionals.

From the 7 Hero build I use Raza as his first optional build w/ Dissonance
Curses/Resto Nec: I use Rejuv instead of Life and Shadow of Fear
SoS Rit: Painful Bond instead of Ancestor's Rage

How could this be improved for my general noobishness and sort of lack of experience in micro-ing to help with Torc'qua? I'm able to get all the way until the city gate opens and then I somehow always wipe within the first two groups I pull.

Things I will try after reading this thread: Getting a longbow to pull and microing a prot spell before every pull. I don't know why I never thought to do either of these!

Unrelated: I also play with my Dervish friend, if I were to swap out one of those, who should I swap out? The 7 heroes seem to supplement each other well, but I was thinking the Monk?

Thanks so much! You all seem very constructive here.

Edit: It also should go without saying that I'm also extremely poor... I have the rune setups for the heroes, but I'm still working on getting weapons and other equipment for them. :/ I'm probably biting off more than I can chew trying to do this, but the rest of the game has been cakewalk up until now!

Daesu · Nov 29, 2011, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorakun

First of all: Hi! I'm new to Guild Wars (Less than 6 months or so) and I'm just starting to sort of step up my game and have been looking to complete City of Torc'Qua... and it's hell!

I consider Foundry to be worse than City. Anyway this is what I used for DoA:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=250

Sorakun · Nov 29, 2011, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I consider Foundry to be worse than City. Anyway this is what I used for DoA:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=250

How do you get 4 mesmers in a party with heroes? I thought there's only Gwen/Norgu/Razah?

Daesu · Nov 30, 2011, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorakun

How do you get 4 mesmers in a party with heroes? I thought there's only Gwen/Norgu/Razah?

I bought mercenaries. Once I got them, I am never going back.

You can try replacing one of the mesmers with a N/Me if you dont have mercs.

Sorakun · Nov 30, 2011, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I bought mercenaries. Once I got them, I am never going back.

You can try replacing one of the mesmers with a N/Me if you dont have mercs.

Oohhhhhhhhhhh I totally forgot about those! Well, that's definitely not going to happen! haha Budget is tight as it is this year, and I'm a broke college student. :P

So it sounds like the 7 hero build+DarkSpirit is probably the way to go for me? Should I take the minion bomber from 7 hero and use Discord instead of Aura of the Lich? The minions are nice, but because I take my time pulling and that wall I have to clear in the city, Minions seem to be scarce. Otherwise I'd take two Domination, one Ineptitude and keep the rest the same?

Again, I'm also awful at micro-ing, (Probably because I've never played Rits or Necs...) and DarkSpirit's lets me have the wiggleroom of that, right? :3 I suppose the only thing I will make sure to do is cast shelter before I pull if I can since they don't seem to have any prot spells.

Daesu · Nov 30, 2011, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Since I have bought them, I might as well use them right? And don't worry, from the recent black friday's sales figures, the economy is improving at least in the US.

I don't think you should use Discord, which is single targeting. With the recent buffs to the mesmer, going N/Me with mesmer skills would still be better for both offense/defense.

Jeydra · Nov 30, 2011, 04:11 PM // 16:11

That seven hero player support build is so common yet so mediocre, it's like the new Discordway. Someone should unvote it from Wiki zzz.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...t10447337.html

If playing with a Dervish, sub out an Air Ele for the Dervish, change the UA to RoJ and give it Strength of Honour, give the SoS Rit Splinter Weapon, and put a hard res on the Mesmer (use Flesh of my Flesh).

If you're doing Torc'qua in HM, be sure to unequip all the wands from all heroes or they will wand until they're out of energy. Offensive builds CAN work in DoA HM, but you're generally better off using some extra defense so swap out the other Air Ele as well for a Mesmer.

If you're doing Torc'qua in NM, you should have no problems, but be careful about that mob just inside the gates because it's easy to double aggro. If you are going to die, hit Fall Back and run!

Sorakun · Nov 30, 2011, 08:20 PM // 20:20

DEFINITELY just trying to do NM, I'm not fully equipped by any means hah

So you're suggesting:

Me (air Ele; I don't think I want to change mine, because I think it's fun but I'll try his for giggles sometime)
Dervish (I forget his build..)
SoS Rit -->Splinter Weapon (Drop painful bond)
SoGM
UA-->RoJ w/ SoH (Which is what I have now)
ES Mes
Inept Mes w/ Flesh
AotL MM Nec

Or should I swap out the SoGM for a ST ritualist? Otherwise, I like your modifications to his build.

But just to point out, those mods are REALLY close to the mediocre 7H build I cited (http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_...r_Support)--So what's the big difference that makes it mediocre? I really AM curious, I'm not trying to be a troll hehe.

Jeydra · Dec 01, 2011, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Drop the Inept, use another ESurge. Also no, we are not really close. We've got a player Dervish, which makes the builds completely different.

It might be preferable to have Curses support somewhere, but then you need a good Dervish + a bit of patience on your part, up to you.

Daesu · Dec 01, 2011, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorakun

DEFINITELY just trying to do NM, I'm not fully equipped by any means hah

So you're suggesting:

Me (air Ele; I don't think I want to change mine, because I think it's fun but I'll try his for giggles sometime)
Dervish (I forget his build..)
SoS Rit -->Splinter Weapon (Drop painful bond)
SoGM
UA-->RoJ w/ SoH (Which is what I have now)
ES Mes
Inept Mes w/ Flesh
AotL MM Nec

Or should I swap out the SoGM for a ST ritualist? Otherwise, I like your modifications to his build.

But just to point out, those mods are REALLY close to the mediocre 7H build I cited (http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_...r_Support)--So what's the big difference that makes it mediocre? I really AM curious, I'm not trying to be a troll hehe.

This is similar to my melee mesmerway build: http://www.gwpvx.com/User:DarkSpirit...lee_characters

Except that I replaced the SoGM with a ST defensive rit, and the MM with a BiP/restore necro for extra heals.

It becomes:

Me (air Ele; I don't think I want to change mine, because I think it's fun but I'll try his for giggles sometime)
Dervish (I forget his build..)
SoS Rit -->Splinter Weapon (Drop painful bond)
SoGM (replaced with ST defensive rit)
UA-->RoJ w/ SoH (Which is what I have now)
ES Me/P
ES or Panic Me/P
AotL MM Nec (replaced with N/Rt BiP/Restore)

Your air ele is replacing one of my domination mesmers in the build. That is fine since both of you are damage types and with that, you don't need mercenaries.

Wenspire · Dec 01, 2011, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Since he's doing NM, wouldn't using fire eles be a better choice?

Daesu · Dec 01, 2011, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Since he's doing NM, wouldn't using fire eles be a better choice?

No because the foes are higher level and have high armor even in NM. At least air magic has armor penetration but that doesn't mean DoA can't be completed using fire instead.

I think Jeydra used a ToF build with a fire ele in foundry sometime ago.